The Root of The Matter

Nurturing Whole-Body Health Through Orthodontic Innovation

• Dr. Rachaele Carver, D.M.D. Board-Certified, Biologic, Naturopathic Dentist • Season 2 • Episode 10

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Dr. Rachaele Carver is joined by Dr. Catherine Murphy, DDS, whose shift from traditional orthodontist to holistic health advocate has reshaped the way we think about dental care. In this episode, Dr. Murphy peels back the curtain on the patient-centered approach that harmonizes oral health with overall well-being. We promise you'll walk away with a new perspective on how early infant care, focusing on muscle development and addressing tethered oral tissues, can significantly influence lifelong health.

Delving deeper, we share enlightening discussions on the implications of genetics and nutrition in prenatal care, stressing the crucial differences between folic acid and folate, and their roles in epigenetics. I recount a touching success story of treating my niece's baby for lip and tongue tie, highlighting the immediate benefits and long-term potential of craniofacial therapy. We also tackle the often-overlooked issue of sleep-disordered breathing in pregnant women and illustrate the profound impact of myofunctional therapy on children’s oral and mental health, with nods to experts like Dr. Lauren Ballinger and her work on airway-focused dental practices.

Our conversation concludes with an insightful look into the connection between diet, dental health, and inflammation, urging listeners to sift through the noise and hone in on practices that truly foster holistic health. Dr. Murphy and I emphasize the commitment required from both healthcare providers and patients to navigate the wealth of information and make empowered decisions for better health outcomes. Join us as we leave you better informed and inspired to take control of your health journey, reminding you that the foundation of wellness starts with understanding and applying the principles of holistic orthodontic care.

Want to learn more about Dr. Murphy by visiting her website here: https://drcatherinemurphy.com/

Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/drcatherinemurphy/
https://www.tiktok.com/@drcatherinemurphy
https://www.youtube.com/@drcatherinemurphy

To learn more about holistic dentistry, check out Dr. Carver's website:

http://carverfamilydentistry.com

To contact Dr. Carver directly, email her at drcarver@carverfamilydentistry.com. 

Do you want to talk with someone at Dr. Carver's office? 

Call her practice: 413-663-7372



Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Speaker 1:

Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Root of the Matter. I am your host, dr Rachel Carver, and today we are very fortunate to have Dr Katherine Murphy with us. Dr Murphy is a holistic health advocate, trained as an orthodontist, but she's really been focusing on patient-centered care and really, how do we change from kind of orthodontist to really looking at the whole body right? That's everything we always talk about on this podcast. What is the root of the problem? Traditional ortho, we all know, is wait till all the baby teeth fall out and then fix the teeth. But, as we're learning, that may not be the best approach. So, dr Murphy, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey?

Speaker 2:

Okay, thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to sharing to your community and, as we were talking briefly before we started, I'm just loving the impact worldwide that your podcast is doing. So yay to you and the listeners. Keep spreading this, because this is something that is a worldwide concern, and the more people that we can collaborate with across the waters, the better that everyone gets. So my background I've been in the field of orthodontics for over 30 years. I am not that old.

Speaker 1:

I've been in it 30 years.

Speaker 2:

But my father is an orthodontist who's been doing orthodontics for over 60 years and I started as a dental assistant at 15. I was in his office prior to that, but actually seeing the difference in people's mouths started at 15. So it's a unique perspective to have been in that for so long and to see how his treatment planning and some of the things that he had mentioned to me that weren't really ever mentioned in residency, even though we did actually attend the same university Indiana University, the educational background that my father gave me, my universities, because I will say I have been trained by some of the best traditional classic orthodontists and everything was so close. Everyone gets into healthcare. I can't say everyone always or never, but most will get into healthcare because ultimately they just want to serve. They want to serve the needs of the patients as best that they can. But we're all human. We also follow what patients want. And it's also been interesting since I have had my toes in the water since 15, but then I started practicing in the water since 15. But then I started practicing. I graduated dental school in 07. Oh, sorry, 05. From dental school I practiced as a general dentist and then I went back to residency 07. So I started practicing orthodontics in 2010.

Speaker 2:

To give you a little bit of background, the wants of the patients have also changed, and so part of why this podcast is so amazing is because it reaches the advocates on both ends the patients and the clinicians and patients. I know you might not want to hear this, but some of the burden is put on you because for years, the mass amount of patients have asked for orthodontics to get faster Less pain, faster, more aesthetic. Faster, less appointments, faster, less work. And everything I'm going to talk to you about involves more time, more effort from the patient, because, truly, what kind of got us away from so many things is that we stopped honoring what the body could do itself and started handing things over to the healthcare provider, as if oh, of course I don't have a model of teeth right here, but if they could just hand the teeth to me, straighten them and then give them back as if it's a denture. So the reason why I caution the patients and I know that no one needs anything else on their plate is that healthcare overall is going to change by the demands that we put upon it. By the demands that we put upon it If we keep asking for simpler solutions. We will keep finding short-term solutions that seem faster in the short term.

Speaker 2:

But as a holistic health advocate, I really say I really want to help you find those life-enhancing therapies over the short-term solutions. And I am ecstatic that for certain things there are like okay, someone's been hurt, you can take care of something. Boom In dentistry, something's hurting you, you need a tooth pulled. There's an urgent care in most places across the United States that you can find someone on a Sunday afternoon now that will take care of that painful tooth. That is great for those that have to have that tooth taken out right then. But then what happened? It's not over. We need to find out really the root cause of why you had to lose that tooth, and that's the part that then if you're going in there and you want that short-term solution I'm in pain, I want to get you out of pain, that then you leave.

Speaker 2:

And what's the follow-up Because that is not your dental person. And that's the whole conversation about my patient-centered approach to orthodontics is that the patient has to be ready to understand that this has so much to do with what's going on with them and their bodies and what effort they're able to put in. The reason why ortho relapse is there is because, if you are only relying on me of what I can do for you, once I'm done with you, I'm done with you, the forces of the orthodontic, the braces, the aligners, whatever you use, are then off and it's ultimately your body. Yes, there can be retainers, but that's a whole other discussion, and accepting that you can't put the blame of oh then, this relapse happened just off of the retainers, the braces, the orthodontist. It's because your body's trying to compensate for other things. So that's a really long introduction. I'm not telling you much about me.

Speaker 1:

No, it's fabulous, and I think that's. I love that you're starting there, because that's a really, really impactful statement that you made. Right that we expect, okay, the orthodontist they did their job, the wires or the liners, whatever they were, and now I should be perfect. And I think this is where we have the divide between traditional orthodontics and the more functional orthodontics. Right, because I'm always asking my patient why were your teeth crooked in the first place? Is it just bad luck? Oh, it's genetics. My dad had those teeth. Sure, genetics play a piece, right, but what about all those habits? What about those tongue ties and the lip ties and the mouth breathing and the swallow problem and the tongue posture? There's so much more to it. So you're right when people think, oh, I relapsed because I didn't wear my aligners. Were any of those habits ever addressed? We?

Speaker 1:

We talked about this a little bit on the podcast. For about early intervention, right, I know I can see a two-year-old and I can already see the problem. So I had a brand new patient yesterday, a one-year-old, which congratulations to the parents who are great bringing in the child. Because what are we going to do at one Much? We gave him a little toothbrush and he and much. We gave him a little toothbrush and he and so we could look. But the most important part at that one year visit is educating the caregiver and educating them about proper hygiene. Of course everybody knows they should brush and floss, but what about those habits, right? So we talked about, is the baby a mouth breather? Do you notice that?

Speaker 1:

I go back and look at my kids' photographs when they were big. All of them had their mouths open. I was like, ah, look at that. And one of my daughters sucked her thumb until she was eight and at the time I was thinking, oh, her teeth don't look bad, it's not a problem. Sure enough, when her teeth came in they were crooked. Her primary teeth weren't, but her adult teeth were. So talking to the parents about nutrition, right, and about chewing and sippy cups, yes, the way the mouth shapes Right, and this is what we talk about too, like breastfeeding, it's not just about the nutrition from breast milk but the whole. That, the whole latching on to the breast One promotes nasal breathing Right. Proper tongue posture, right, all these.

Speaker 1:

That whole sucking action is for proper swallowing, like all of those are absolutely vital for creating, and it's not that some people are able to breastfeed and there is some bottles that make it better than others. But just to think, if some people feel like I just don't want to do it, just knowing that there are other reasons besides the nutrition for breast milk, I think is important, and I know I've said it before, but you can't it's OK to reiterate things over and over and over, right?

Speaker 2:

Oh, if you'll let me have a little bit of a soapbox, because that's the whole reason why I wrote that first book, dear Mama, was the struggle I had with my son to breastfeed and was really the jumping off point for me. I explained that my diving into the world of the holistic or patient-centered approach was started years before my son, before I became a mom. But really having my son and those struggles, it was like skydiving. Once I jumped off, I'm like why didn't I do this sooner? This is amazing. I'm putting together my first collaborative team because with breastfeeding and I will be the first to say, and I said it before, choice is great Choices, because none of us are the same. We need choices because, even though I say we want long-term solutions, sometimes you need the short term. It's the educational aspect of the choice and that isn't part of this whole debate, which I won't get into. The breast is best, or healthy is best or fed is best, fed best versus breast is best. All that does is divide. So I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt that said comparison is the thief of joy, whereas I really say comparison is a thief of compassion and the world is lacking compassion, any kind of comparison and saying best. Let's understand that the goal is for the caregiver and the baby to be healthy. And when I say healthy, we're not putting a divide between your physical health and mental health, because your mental health is going to affect your physical health. And maybe not in your standard numbers of maybe the four typical things the PCP might look at, because there's only so much time to look at certain things, right, but the overall like how is your gut Okay, how are you sleeping? We have focused on the three main things we have to do eating, sleeping and breathing. I wanted to do all of them faster. We want to eat real fast, we want to sleep real fast and we breathe fast. So those numbers of looking even at physical health are not even great because you're not looking at. Let's slow down, let's see how often you're sleeping.

Speaker 2:

So with the breastfeeding, the education needs to be there before the baby's born. And then the options given for the families. I understand there's many different family dynamics but understanding that if it's a family like it's a couple of two fathers, where that's not an option, then let's really stress that. At six months, the open cup, let's really educate about the baby-led feeding before the baby's there, before all the fear is put into any parent, it doesn't matter young, old, adoptive there's that fear factor because you're not educated. So let's educate them prior. Let's have that first dental visit for the baby when the baby's in utero.

Speaker 2:

So that discussion of what the mom is doing, how that is affecting the child and what's going to happen when that baby's first born, that you can do to help from the moment that that baby enters this world with us, to help set that foundation for overall health. Because things are always so focused on one or the other oh, I take care of this and someone else takes care of that but we need them overlapping because there is no divide. There's no divide in her health, baby's health, upon birth of that baby, what happens? We're all in that together, because if baby's not doing well, caregiver's not doing well, vice versa. And I don't remember ever seeing that question of whether or not the child was breastfed on any questionnaires, maybe at pediatric dentists, but that might be more geared toward how to better direct co-sleeping and whether or not the baby, because there's the whole concern of if baby falls asleep on the breast.

Speaker 2:

They educate in a certain way, which, again, that's not my realm, but to actually talk about why, like all the reasons, dr Carver, that you just discussed, the swallowing, the posture, the jaw movement with it, so the parents can know and do things. Because some years ago, with industrial revolution, so much stuff came up around breastfeeding and made it this topic that people got uncomfortable talking about when it's feeding your baby and also talking about formula. I didn't know that my child's formula the first ingredient, dr Carver, was high fructose corn syrup, because I looked at the big label that talked about all the minerals in it. The first ingredient, the fourth was sugar, and then there's very few really great formula options in the United States.

Speaker 1:

My aunt. She's a PhD and she researched formula. Most of her PhD was spent on researching formula and we would always ask her what's the best formula? She's breast milk. I know, I know, I know, but if you can't breastfeed, what's the best formula? Breast milk, it's a light cake. She lectured all over the world about this stuff and she said it's just, it's very difficult to mimic the breast milk but there are some better options and of course, it's the only option for some people and that's okay.

Speaker 1:

But I love what you're saying is that some people just don't know why it might be better for it, and so if you're able to and you're more educated, then you can make that choice. So I love how you said that.

Speaker 2:

And then learn to adapt. If with the family dynamics it's not possible, then baby-led weaning needs to be discussed. The open cup, avoiding sippy cups, needs to be discussed, no matter what. But that emphasis of, okay, let's get you a coach, let's get you someone to help you with this, Because the first six months okay bottle, we all know if you turn up the bottle, you turn the bottle upside down, the milk's going to come out.

Speaker 2:

The baby doesn't have to work that hard, right? So at six months, let's start. Let's start having the baby work, really use these muscles. So that's why I love products like the Myo Munchie for the baby, things like that that can be incorporated at a younger age. There are so many things out there now to help support families. Families just need to be connected with them because that is going to ultimately help with that growth and development, which is what orthodontics truly is. But again, to address patient concerns, orthodontics got to be cosmetic and if it was truly viewed as the growth and development that truly is, cosmetics is the plus side, but really that's the plus side of being healthy it's looking good.

Speaker 1:

Why don't you tell us a little bit like how would say functional? I call it functional orthodontics or holistic orthodontics. How does that? I think traditional, as I said, wait till they're 12 or 13. How is a functional orthodontist or a holistic one looking at that differently?

Speaker 2:

It depends on the practice. I'm in a few different offices right now because I really I help offices either start their orthodontic department or transform their orthodontic department, and some offices will. Let me see young ones. The youngest I've seen when I had my own private practice was about two weeks old and recognizing from birth you can start to see the concerns. Like you mentioned earlier, the mouth breathing and talking about why.

Speaker 2:

One thing that I love is that there is so much more discussion these days about tethered oral tissues.

Speaker 2:

The downside is that again there are providers out there that are willing to help with that short-term solution that don't look at the overall problem of the tethered oral tissues because it's never just the mouth, Like you never just release the tissue and don't need to do anything else.

Speaker 2:

So really having it from the standpoint where an orthodontist can take a look, talk about the growth and development and say, because I don't release ties but say, yes, you may have been told that there's a lip or tongue release, let's not jump to that just yet. Let's also find the provider that's going to help you with that tension that's in the torso, with the belly. Let's help get that nervous system prepared before and after, because it's never just that tissue, so I serve more as the hey. It's going to be okay. There are people around we can get this for you, but you want to do this right and you feel comfortable. And once you feel comfortable the baby will. Let's get you practicing the stretches that you're going to be doing, Because if you haven't been inside your baby's mouth you're really not going to want to do it when it's healing. So let's get you in there, let's get those exercises going, let's get the baby comfortable with you doing that, and then let's get you ready for that, for the actual procedure of releasing the tissues.

Speaker 1:

So that's super important because I think that's sometimes where these releases can fail, because there is no follow-up, there's no pre-sought. My niece just had a baby Three weeks old. She had lip and tongue tie and could not get provided for two months. And I was like, I have the laser, I should do it, but I've never worked on a three-week-old I don't know. My sister-in-law was like do you think you can do it? And I said, okay, yeah, think you can do it. And I said okay, yeah, yes, I gotta help this baby, because she was.

Speaker 1:

My niece was being so frustrated that she couldn't breastfeed and the baby was, but all things that go on with it. And so the lactation consultant, she was helping her and helped her. This is what you're gonna have to do before and after. So I I used my laser and zip, zip, in about two minutes was able to release that for the baby and instantly. It's been a few weeks now. He's already gained a pound. He's eating so well. But I find it really interesting what you say. But that's not the end of it, right? So where else is that tension in the body? So that's where, maybe, like a craniofacial therapist, myofascial there's all different things to really come into and it would be so amazing at every birth if we had a craniofascial person. I wish my older daughter she was sucked out with a vacuum and that's, I think, part of the reason why she always sucked her thumb right, because when that thumb is going up on that palate, that's right where your nervous system connects front and back of your nervous system.

Speaker 1:

So she was sucking her thumb as a calming mechanism for her nervous system, because she and I remember when she was like four or five, it was the first time she saw a chiropractor. I'm just like, oh, she's really out of whack. And I'm like, oh, the poor kid, she has a baby. When you think of colic, is it that they're out of alignment? Right, their nervous system is, and now she's older, now she has more anxiety. I'm like if we could have gotten that and that, of course, can have the guilt and whatever it's all done, but it's a learning tool for all of us and that's why I have the podcast. Right, you learn from the things that I didn't know at the time, and so it would have been awesome. The babies, especially any baby who has a little bit of a traumatic birth, that craniofascial will just help realign the structures of the baby, get them into that calming nervous system, and then the baby can develop just more easily. So oh absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so the lactation is all is now following my niece, but it's what you said. I'm like, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to make sure she sees the craniofascial person too, so the little baby. Look for any other cause. They were concerned about some of the other organs and stuff. Yeah, that is very interesting too, and, in the whole, what we're always talking about in this podcast is everything is connected, right? Yes, we have to remember that. What is the root of fun? Why do you think part of the oral tether is seeming to become more common? Perhaps, and do you think that's something that, as a pregnant woman, is there something nutritionally or something else? Maybe that we can do that might prevent that?

Speaker 2:

It's a great question and something I know enough about to let everyone know that there's the difference between the folic acid and folate and that is not common knowledge among OBGYNs. It is going to be something that, again, the moms will need to help bring awareness, because I went to the quote-unquote best in the Chicago area and with my second baby, when I knew more, I'm like okay, so what do you think about these vitamins? As long as it has folic acid. I knew more. I'm like okay, so what do you think about these vitamins? As long as it has folic acid, it's fine. I'm like what about folate? She's like yeah, but like folic acid? I'm like do you recognize the difference? You just need folic acid or folate.

Speaker 2:

And it was also interesting with my second child and there's three and a half years between when I got the genetic testing it was just the blood test. I asked will you check for the MTHFR mutation? No, I said okay. Well, you said you're adding like 200 new things. Like it's insane the amount of things that you can look at. No, I said can I ask you why?

Speaker 2:

There'd be too much discussion around it, too many things that we don't know yet if it's truly related to the MTHFR or not, and there's many other genes. If you read the book, it's Ben Lynch, right that wrote Dirty Genes. Okay, so many Basically. Just be aware there's this term epigenetics. If you aren't aware of it, google it. Lots of stuff will come up about how our environment affects our genes. So what we eat will affect the turning on and turning off of certain genes.

Speaker 2:

Those of us that have issues with MTHFR have issues with synthetic form of folate, which is folic acid, which has been added to many, many foods and is what is the number one looked for in a prenatal vitamin. You can find prenatal vitamins with folate. You do need to step away from your standard convenience store and look for those that have quality ingredients. Some of them are not as expensive as you would think. I had a colleague spending probably 10 times the amount that I did on mine. I found mine through medical colleagues, so you don't have to spend a ton of money on really great prenatals, but it is something, it's an investment. I felt better the second pregnancy. The first pregnancy I did. I used whatever was at Walgreens and it was coated with a synthetic color and everything like that, because I didn't know.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so I also in my experience. I think having these MTHR SNPs, as we call them, is more common than not. I have one copy. My kids are so lucky they beat the genetic odds and they both have two copies. So what that means is that methylation is a way that we we methylate our enzymes so we can detox. That's one of the main reasons we have this methylate our enzymes so we can detox. That's one of the main reasons we have this. So, like my kids with two copies of the SNP, that means that their detox enzymes are only 30% effective. Right Me one copy. I'm 70% effective. And those of us with those SNPs, again, we cannot detox very well. So that folic acid is a big no-no. Our bodies cannot handle that. So we're not getting that folate that's so important. That prevents these tethered tissues, prevents the what do you call it? The cleft palates. Right the spinal cord issues.

Speaker 1:

So really, really important, and I do think it's more common than not. And I think about this. I'm like why would it be that? My kids? That just doesn't seem fair. What is it? We are living in an increasingly toxic world. So my kids are the canaries in the coal mine. So because they don't detox well, their bodies are going to respond to a toxin faster. So this is how I tell myself that it's a good thing, so they'll be able to recognize in the body and try to take action, I hope, once they get past these teenage years. So that's really important. Yeah, and a really great distinction to remind people of.

Speaker 1:

There are lots of great pharmacy out there, like in my practice. We have Fullscript, wellovate, fullscript, and you can go on those and you get them direct from the manufacturer, so you know they're not taking them. You get yours off Amazon. There's no guarantee that that hasn't been tampered with. There's been studies showing that Walmart and Amazon even if you're getting the brand that you would get on Fullscript, it may still be they can open them up and put whatever the heck they want in there.

Speaker 1:

So using something like Fullscript, you're more guaranteed to get the actual product.

Speaker 2:

Which goes for even those that want homeopathy. You got to get it through your actual provider because there's just so much of a gray they call it a gray market on Amazon that I understand. Especially in my area they stopped selling some of that out of whole food, which then put the burden more on the health food stores because they don't have the capacity to hold as much as many options. But I tell my patients then go onto the actual website and order it from Boreon or whoever you would like, or get in touch with a naturopath in the area that can handle holding more supply. So that's a great point because Amazon has made our life easier. In some ways it has, but also it does put more work on us because you do have to be more weary of everything that you purchase now.

Speaker 1:

So is there anything else you think for the during pregnancy? We know folate is a big one. Is there anything else that you think is important?

Speaker 2:

Oh, during pregnancy we discussed the nervous system. These put together the question because we started talking about what holistic or patient-centered approach. What makes it different is that the nervous system is a key component, and so I feel during pregnancy, that is the best time for the caregivers to really like truly nest, like we talk about nesting, but nest in the way of lits. Let's figure out what our triggers are. Let's really and this isn't dental related but really figure out why you want to be a parent. So this goes for even those that are not actually just eating the baby, so those that are not carrying the baby, actually that time period that you're waiting, let's figure out why you want to be a parent. And I say that because you need to look at what your health goals are, the goals that are going to be for your kids, the overall goals of what life is going to be, because wanting all the benefits of a holistic health means that it's a holistic life. So if you want all these great things and you want your family to not have the influx of toxins, it's a lifestyle. It is not something you go for your appointment because Dr Carver, she's going to give you these things that are for your teeth, but then in the backseat of the car, you have the fruit roll-ups with the Cheetos, followed by the Dr Pepper, then followed by let's go ahead and have a big screen TV in every single room. Everything in moderation, but also understanding how each thing in the body affects elsewhere in the body. But also everything that's in your lifestyle affects your health, and so much pressure is put on the mom carrying the baby of how she looks and things. And let's go to how you feel. And if you're feeling anxiety, if you're feeling nauseous all the time, if you're feeling tired all the time, let's not blame it on the pregnancy, because I'm sure I've listened to all of the podcasts, but I know that you've probably talked about sleep disorder, breathing during pregnancy. No, we haven't. No, oh, okay, I hate it, but so often things are like, oh, you're just tired because you're pregnant, right? Let's also evaluate you. If you had any propensity for mouth breathing while sleeping, it will be increased because you should be gaining weight. You are growing a baby, so you should be gaining weight. You will be changing your sleep position and that should be discussed. They recommend sleeping on your left side. Maybe you are a back sleeper, maybe you are a belly sleeper, but these positional changes need to be discussed. You need to track it. There's so many different ways to track it. Now that method has gotten easier. How do you go and interpret that data? Who do you talk with?

Speaker 2:

And again, that's why the first dental visit should be during pregnancy, because if you're mouth breathing, you're stressing out your body, which puts more stress on your baby, and you don't know oftentimes. Because, like with my story, I kicked my husband out of bed when I was pregnant with our first because he was snoring, and then there was no one then to tell me that I was mouth breathing and it wasn't snoring, but it was just mouth breathing. But no one was there. No one had suggested I test it. And then, shortly after his birth, I tested myself. I'm like, oh shoot, that's why I wake up with a dry mouth and that's why I was so tired.

Speaker 2:

So there's so many factors that are just. They go back to what you're eating, how you're breathing and how you're sleeping. And, yes, all three you can get the blame of you're pregnant. While you're pregnant, you crave this because you're pregnant. Except, let's really find out the reason why you're craving that. If you're craving citrus, then let's get you some really great vitamin C, but let's also see why you're not absorbing it. I love it, so that's kind of my soapbox. I know this has nothing to do with braces just yet, because all of this actually just goes into the growth and development. Absolutely, and like Dr John Muir says, if you really want to have a child that doesn't need braces, you have to go live in a cave.

Speaker 1:

But it's so great, gosh. If every OB had these conversations, I bet 99% of us would say our OBs never talked about any of these kind of things. And yes, it sure was. That's such a nice excuse, right. Like you're pregnant, it's okay, it's just normal, you're supposed to have all this and that, but it's really great when you're thinking about that and right, you're growing a human being. Obviously, everything that we are doing is going to impact that growing human being.

Speaker 1:

Those are some really great, really interesting tips for all those of you, moms and grandmas and potential pregnant women. This is all awesome information. So, okay, let's say, now the baby's born. So, like I just said, my one-year-old came in and discussed all the different habits and I can see when things are going very, very early, right. But again, I know some of the orthodontists in our area say I'm not going to see the kid until they're 14. And I'm like ugh. So we're really fortunate we have Dr Lauren Ballinger in Berkshire, canada. She does, so she's now at her whole practice is dedicated to airway and she's seen.

Speaker 1:

She likes to see a kid before six. She doesn't. Once they're already like 10 and 11, she's I missed the window there and she's always saying again before age six. When we see these kind of things, let's get ahead of it, because it's a lot harder to correct a habit that's been around for 10 years versus one that's been around for two or three, right? So in any of the practices, are you doing any of those like mild brace type of thing? How about myofunctional therapy? We've had one episode about that, but maybe give your take on, as we were talking about tongue ties and how sometimes it goes wrong. If you don't have that therapy afterwards to correct the habit, it can go wrong.

Speaker 1:

Let me give you a take on unlawful therapy for us.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to give a shout out to Dr Lauren Bellinger. I didn't know that she was that close to you. She and I went through Dr Heng's orthotopics course together and so she's just lovely and I'm so proud that she has really transformed her practice and so happy that you guys get to collaborate with my functional therapy. Every single I pay. Every single patient I talked to I recommend my functional therapy, which I correlate to it. Shouldn't be that surprising, because if you have a good physical therapist that's working with you, they should also be talking. Surprising because if you have a good physical therapist that's working with you, they should also be talking to you about diet. And so any personal trainer too that's in the gym should be talking to you not only about what you're doing in the gym, but also what are you doing at home Doing all these little tips. Because everything works together, Because soft tissue and hard tissue we focus on one or the other, but they have to work well together. So I get to move the hard tissue, I get to move the teeth and bones, but what else is around it? And I'm not sure why we forget that everything around the teeth is muscle. I don't understand. People will get knee replacements and understand they have to go through physical therapy. Anything else that happens to anywhere else in your body. They go through physical therapy and they talk about inflammation or they should. That's my functional therapist. I then look at them as my quarterbacks. This is what I can do. I can move. I'm going to put force on. As long as that force is on there, I can move. I'm going to put force on, and as long as that force is on there, I can move things. If they're not moving, there's a reason why and we got to look at the soft tissue for that.

Speaker 2:

Myofunctional therapy and orthodontics are like peanut butter and jelly right, Love it. And you can't force people to go through things. I understand people have gone through surgeries, had knee replacements that didn't go through PT, but then there are consequences, right? Myofunctional therapy whether where in the ortho treatment, where it goes is a debate and it really depends on the patient. It, to me, is something that doesn't ever end. Myofunctional therapy should be what they do every day when the braces are removed. You should be doing some myofunctional therapy. Should be what they do every day when they're when the braces are removed. You should be doing some myofunctional therapy every day. That's part of my.

Speaker 2:

I have a self-care routine called take three for me and the general movement is it got rooted with, paired up with face yoga. But if you look at face yoga it's really myofunctional therapy based, because anything that's going to again help you look good is going to be strengthening your muscles and making you healthier. So practicing your breathing, practicing your lateral, lingual, palatal section, your caves, every single day, there's just a lot to little tiny habits that you pair with others that can make that big impact. So my functional therapy for those I know that most of your listeners may have heard it, but for those that haven't, it's like physical therapy for the face works on all the muscles around the teeth. So the four goals are to breathe through your nose lips together, proper swallow, and what am I living out?

Speaker 1:

I always forget the fourth one too. I don't know why it is Swallowing.

Speaker 2:

Proper swallow lips together, nasal breathing. Did I say them well?

Speaker 1:

I'm going to have to grab my bow. I know I always forget the fourth one too.

Speaker 2:

But I have these memorized and then when I'm put on the spot, but the goal, those four goals should never be put on that. One person, that myofunctional therapist, sometimes can get that person, that patient, to all four goals, but it's collaborative care. Again, I've mentioned this before, the nervous system is key. If you are locked into the fight or flight getting to those four goals where you naturally have the tongue up, lips together, breathing through your nose, properly swallowing, that is not simple to you and I'm going to repeat that, that's not simple for you.

Speaker 1:

Tongue down the roof, the mouth, because that, like I said, with the thumb sucking, that is at that center, that's at the nervous system center, tongue up on the roof connects the front and the body's energetic systems, electrical systems. So that's why that posture is so important and we see that all the time in adults on a 3D x-ray right their low tongue posture, which is a big risk factor for sleep apnea and snoring and all of that tongue posture. So I will talk about at the end, but we'll attach that little three-minute thing so everybody can do that, because everybody has three minutes of the day to get it. It gives you a really big and this isn't just for kids. So I have adults that we're doing. We use expanders and just recently I was like I've got to get the adults in the myofunctional therapy too. And just recently I was like I've got to get the adults in the myofunctional therapy too Because, yeah, like you said, I can move the structures, but they've had these habits for decades. Got to include that and we're going to have much better results.

Speaker 1:

I love what you're saying. It's physical therapy for the mouth. It just makes sense, right? You have any other joint or bones moving and then you got to do it for the mouth too, and super powerful. It's amazing, just these super little exercise but incredibly powerful. Like you said, the most important thing is that nervous system, and that's what I'm telling parents all the time like the nasal bridge. So much of that, and at a young age. If you can get kids into that parasympathetic nervous system, their whole life is going to be much. Kids, teenagers today the amount of depression, anxiety is just outrageous. If we can teach those kids how to breathe properly, hopefully this next upcoming generation will be better off.

Speaker 2:

Exactly and with my functional therapy. The nice thing and sometimes it definitely should be first, because they can start to feel a difference sometimes I can start talking to them about the nasal de-clearing. Let's actually see how, if you can breathe through your nose for three minutes, all that stuff. But that's not really my setting as the orthodontist. I can help support the myofunctional therapist doing that, but that is a more of a therapy type setting. So when dental offices mention this to you, being the patient, understand that they're not spending that time because that's not the best use of their time. Okay, those things are best done in an environment where you can then be as calm as possible, no matter how great you are with, like I love my dentist, dr Carver's awesome, once you're in the dental chair, there is a component of anxiety, for sure, and I, like I love, I love getting my teeth cleaned. It's great, but there's still that like you're handing over and letting. It's a very intimate, trusting environment. When you're then trying to reclaim your nervous system. You want an environment that is relaxed and is focused on that, and I feel sometimes patients are like, yeah, but they didn't really talk to me that much about it. Yes, your primary care physician didn't talk to you that much about heart surgery because they're not doing the heart surgery, but you didn't doubt them when they said that you need to go see a cardiologist. Please don't doubt your dentist when they talk about myofunctional therapy. You don't doubt your PCP when they say you need physical therapy after your surgeries. You might not want to do it. You don't doubt that. You don't claim you're not doing it in office, so maybe I shouldn't do it. There's lots of excuses and that's another part of holistic orthodontics is that, if you want and I've had patients come in and they're very upset about how they were treated years ago Okay One, we spent a very extended amount of time.

Speaker 2:

She needed to get that anger out. She was very upset. But if you're not willing to let go of how upset you are about that, you can't move forward. I told her I cannot help you. I can't help you because you are still. You're telling me one thing that you're so upset at that orthodontist because you did have teeth taken out.

Speaker 2:

But you also told me that you went into that orthodontist. You said I went in there. All I had was spacing between my front two teeth. That's all I wanted to fix. I didn't want anything else fixed. And here you is. You took out four teeth and now, 40 years later, look at how messed up I am. Well, I'm going to remind you that you don't have the space between the front teeth. You did ask for just that and I'm not putting the blame. But let's also let's just understand that at that time that was what was done. You had a lot of crowding and when you went in there, she was 28 at the time yes, cause now I'm seniors.

Speaker 2:

You went in there and those problems weren't detected for all those years maybe 20, whatever. They weren't detected by anyone else. 20, whatever. They weren't detected by anyone else.

Speaker 2:

Crooked teeth didn't happen overnight. And crooked teeth didn't happen because of one thing, and you saw many providers beforehand, and then you went to a provider that knew how to get you straight teeth and they got you straight teeth. True, they did not address all the things that weren't addressed those prior years, and that's why the shift is happening. But also when people come into my office and I didn't, I just want straight teeth. I didn't ask for all of that, you're right, you didn't.

Speaker 2:

But now that I know it is, that is how I care for you. I need to let you know all the other factors that led to the crooked teeth and you don't want to address the other ones. There are plenty of other people that will, but I can't ignore what else is going on and I can't not tell you because you're going to get mad at me. People can get mad at me for all kinds of reasons, but me not actually disclosing things that I know and I know in 10 years I'll know different things.

Speaker 2:

Information is always coming and information is coming at us so fast that when people listen to this podcast years later they'll be like, yes, but Dr Murphy should have known this. Except, there's so much out there right now and we're trying to filter between all the information and true knowledge. And that is the key thing and why podcasts like these are so great because you're sharing true knowledge and not just information and holistic orthodontics. You have to be ready to have that lifestyle change. You can't have just one kid, okay. So now for you, we're going to address this. These other kids over here? You can keep eating all that other stuff because you don't have braces on. It's more of the oh shoot. I have recognized that they do really react poorly to this or this in their diet. Oh okay, that could really be leading to some inflammation.

Speaker 1:

Let's see how that is if we take that out. And the more inflamed kids are, the less well teeth are going to move, right. Yes, we see swollen tonsils all the time and I'm always talking about the gut and inflammation and what they're eating. People say to me, older people, I've always had swollen tonsils all the time and I'm always talking about the gut and inflammation and what they're eating. It's not just people say to me, older people, I've always had swollen tonsils. Maybe they've always had some low-grade inflammation that we need to look at, kind of poo-poo it because it's always been that way. I'm like, okay, but has anybody ever told you why? Because your tonsils aren't supposed to be swollen, right, you're not supposed to have tonsils. Still, and I say it all the time just because something's common doesn't make it normal, and I think today we are normalizing so many of these problems because they're so common and it's just. We don't. Not everybody has the tools to understand the root of the issues there.

Speaker 2:

But do you want to know what I think? The root reason for that is yes, and this I had to learn the hard way because I went into yeah, I'm going to start asking parents about breastfeeding and all this stuff.

Speaker 2:

And then I realized the pushback that I got. I'm like whoa, why am I getting this pushback from this one question that can start such a discussion? And then I started thinking about things and it was coming up with some other stuff. It is because, parents, we are always trying to do the best and we have a lot going on on us and we've trusted the healthcare providers and then, as we grow older, hopefully our kids have then learned to trust a healthcare provider. They've trusted them.

Speaker 2:

But with that sometimes comes ignoring the intuition and then making that choice to ignore the intuition, intuition, making the choice of yeah, like, really not just being like I don't want to do this, but that, oh, this doesn't feel right to me, and learning to advocate for yourself and for your child and realizing that, oh my gosh, I trusted that person. Then it was whole like like ball of things like, oh, and then I didn't really agree with that, but I didn't want to say anything, but then I did this or I didn't do that, and it's that letting go of the shame and the blame and the fear that we hold on, because ultimately, if we let go of shame, blame and fear. Ultimately, if we let go of shame, blame and fear, we could better listen and follow what our body wants to do and we've shifted things, because then we can blame that was a bad healthcare provider or they told me to do this, or that drug does this, and not teaching us how to actually listen to our bodies. We accept that I can scrape my hand and it's going to heal, but let's actually be like, oh my gosh, let's watch this, like having your kids watch their body heal and be like isn't that amazing, isn't that just stellar that you don't have to tell your hand to heal. It's going to want to do that. But let's keep track, let's see. Let's see how long this one took to heal up versus another one.

Speaker 2:

Oh so when we did this one and we put this stuff on it, it made it worse, because there's lots of things that you put on it that can make it worse, or oh, we forgot about it. We just let the body do it. Let's see how fast it can heal then. And so that's the reason why it was always that way, because it's that coverup of oh my gosh, did I make the wrong decision to hand over my healthcare to somebody else. And some of us aren't ready because we're holding on to so many other things that if we let go of one piece, it's like Jenga we think it might just all tumble down. But sometimes the best things happen when it all tumbles down and you get to rebuild. But letting them know that the best, best house can be built once you have a better foundation.

Speaker 1:

This is just fantastic information, man. I really love how you're framing this in the idea of like, when we think of holistic, it's not just that your provider thinks holistic, you have to buy into that lifestyle. I think this is a really important fact that I don't think we've ever really talked about on the podcast. We talked about all these different facets of life, but this is so important. So many of us want to prescribe to this life but maybe we only do part of it and, like what you just said, we just have to let go, let go.

Speaker 1:

I had a whole conversation with my patient ran over yesterday morning because we were talking all about this vibration, right, and how fear is such a low vibration. Yeah, nothing good can come when you're living in that state of fear. So I love this, right, and so that patient, even though they say they want teeth but they're harboring all those negative emotions and that lower vibration. It doesn't matter if you're the best orthodontist in the world, right. So I love that and I think that's something that's really valid that we do talk a lot about on the podcast. Right, about the spirituality, the feelings, because there's so much more than just physical biochemistry in our bodies right, we cannot ignore spiritual, energetic peace of worlds and health and how it all comes together. Kind of running out of time, but I at all appreciate everything you've said. I think we might have to have more conversations, but please tell us how we can get more information.

Speaker 1:

Tell us about your little three-minute routine that you have, and let us know how we can get in touch with you.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you. My handle on pretty much every social media platform is at Dr Katherine Murphy, and that's Katherine with a C, so it's D-R-C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E-M-U-R-P-H-Y. My website is drkatherinemurphycom, so it's pretty easy. If you type in Dr Katherine Murphy, you should be able to find me. My three minute routine. Everyone's welcome to join the Facebook group. It's called Take Three For Me. Connections Made In Harmony.

Speaker 1:

And what it is three minutes a day.

Speaker 2:

One minute on a gentle movement, one minute, which is my favorite All three of them are my favorite but the mindset reset, where you challenge yourself to take a look at what you're grateful for, what you're proud of yourself for, which was the most life-changing for me and your intention for the day. And then one minute of breath work where it's really just you focusing on your breath, so you can join me for it or you can just write those three things down. I also have a journal on Amazon that really helps you guide through the mindfulness portion where if you write down every day at least one thing that you are proud of yourself for, this is one thing I can guarantee you guarantee you it will positively impact your life, like nothing else.

Speaker 1:

I love this for my teenagers. I'm spinning up right now. My goodness, that's awesome. Thank you so much for taking time this afternoon to share all of your valuable insight with our audience and I look forward to seeing you again soon. Thank you so much. Thanks, everybody, for listening and if you enjoyed it, please leave a like and let us know if there's anything else you guys want us to talk about. Otherwise, I'll see you on the next episode. Have a great day, bye.